The Illusion of Attacks, Part 5G

This entry is part 19 of 47 in the series Blog1

Who Created God?

In the great debate over the existence of an Intelligent Designer, as far as the universe and life on earth is concerned, there are certain things that we know for sure are true.  Let us list them

(1) It is a fact that intelligent designers exist on earth.  They are known as humans. If there is one form of intelligence that can design things then this makes the odds very strong that another could exist. It is rather presumptuous to think that humans are the only intelligent designers in existence.

(2) It is a fact that intelligent designers, or humans, interact with matter and are in matter. This makes it not so far fetched that a higher entity could interact with the earth or the universe the same way.

(3) A computer design program, as exists in DNA, or even an elementary one, has never been proven to be created without an intelligent designer.

(4) The living cell is so complex that the combined intelligence of the human race has not been able to duplicate or even fully explain the most simple of them.

(5) It is difficult to fathom how something so complex as a light bulb could evolve by itself, or through natural selection.  It is also difficult to imagine a socket with a power source evolving separately by itself. But then there is a third very difficult thing to imagine and that is this. Imagining the two evolving independently so the two pieces would exactly fit together and work as a unit. You screw the bulb in and it fits. The fact that these two parts fit and correctly interplay would be proof of intelligent design to any reasonable person.  Yet within the living cell there are a number of even more complex parts that fit or work together precisely. Atheists have not been able to explain how this came to be.

(6) The universe and life in it exists.  This we know from our own experience and is a great mystery.  Who or what caused it to be is eve a greater one.


Who or What Created God?

When conversing with an atheist on the subject of Intelligent Design where the concept of God is in any way involved the conversation often ends with this question from him.

“So… Who created God?

The guy rarely expects an answer but uses it as a final statement that supposedly gives him the upper hand. He figures he can then end the argument with a winning hand and graciously exit.

But does the issuing of this statement give him the upper hand in the argument?  It is true that sometimes the believer will acquiesce with a shrug or simply state that God was not created but always existed but this carries no clout with the atheist. He thinks he has made the last rational statement that can be made.  But has he?

No, he has not.

What then can the believer say in return?

He can use this dialog:


Believer: Do you accept the orthodox theory that the universe was created 13.7 million years ago with a Big Bang?

Atheist: Essentially, yes.


Believer: Do you accept the idea that just before the Big Bang that the entire mass that became the universe existed in an infinitesimal point no bigger than an atom?

Atheist: Yes.


Believer: Don’t you find that somewhat difficult to believe?

Atheist: No.  All the evidence seems to point toward this fact.


Believer: So you are willing to believe in a supernatural beginning point from whence the galaxies sprang but cannot accept a Higher Intelligence that can occupy a greater body of matter than the human body?

Atheist: Like I say, I follow the evidence.


Believer: Well, there is one piece of evidence on which we can agree and that is that the universe actually exists in the here and now.

Atheist: Agreed.


Believer: And we both agree it had a beginning.

Atheist: Yes.


Believer: And no matter which of us is correct that beginning was a pretty awesome and unbelievable event.

Atheist:  I suppose so.


Believer:  I find this infinitesimal point that contained the entire universe to be a more fantastic and difficult thing to believe than a Higher Intelligence that designs things. Wouldn’t you agree?

Atheist: No because when you reverse the expansion of the universe it leads us back to the point of origin.


Believer: And I see that things that are designed point to a designer using the same logic, but tell me, where did this point come from?

Atheist: No one knows.


Believer: How long did it exist as a point.

Atheist: No one knows.


Believer: And what existed before the point came into being.

Atheist: We do not know. Some think there were previous universes.


Believer: And when was the first universe created and by what power did it come into being?

Atheist: We can only speculate.


Believer: So you don’t know how this point or any creation came intro existence?

Atheist: We do not.


Believer: So do you think there was a time when nothing at all existed?

Atheist: We do not know.


Believer: Let’s get back to this originating point.  What kind of period of time do you think it was just floating around in empty space?

Atheist: No one knows.  Probably billions of years.


Believer: And what was the trigger that made it explode into the universe as we know it?

Atheist: We do not know.


Believer: It sounds like the things you do not know are much larger in number than the typical believer.  Let us list them:

(1) You do not know what existed before the infinitesimal point.

(2) You do not know what created the infinitesimal point.

(3) You do not know how long the infinitesimal point existed.

(4) You do not know what as in the infinitesimal point

(5) You do not know what made the infinitesimal point explode

(6) You do not know if there was a time when nothing existed.

Believer: It sounds like there are a lot of things you do not know.

Atheist: That’s always the case with science. We are merely researchers.


Believer: I just listed six things you do not know. Doesn’t that make it unfair then to accuse the believer of being ignorant for listing one thing he does not know – that is where God came from?

Atheist: Well, we ask questions that many believers do not ask so there are more unknowns.


Believer: What is the most difficult to believe?  A Higher Intelligence than human that can design better than us or the fact that the universe exists when we can’t explain where it came from?

Atheist: But I can see the universe.


Believer: Yes, seeing is believing, but you have to admit that it is indeed miraculous that anything exists at all.

Atheist: I’ll grant you that.


Believer: So, who do you see as the greatest scientist of all time?

Atheist: Probably Isaac Newton


Believer: Are you aware that Newton believed in Intelligent Design

Atheist: Yes.


Believer:  And are aware that he spent more time trying to understand the mysteries of the Bible than science and he attributed some of his discoveries to contemplating scripture and God?

Atheist: I seem to recall something to that effect.


Believer: Here is what he said about intelligent Design in “Optics:”  “How came the Bodies of Animals to be contrived with so much Art, and for what ends were their several parts? Was the Eye contrived without Skill in Opticks, and the Ear without Knowledge of Sounds? . . . And these things being rightly dispatch’d, does it not appear from Phaenomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent. . . ?”

So, do you think Newton was not as smart as you for believing in a creator?

Atheist: He was indeed intelligent, but I disagree with him on that point.


Believer: Who would be your second choice as the greatest scientists?

Atheist: Einstein


Believer: Are you aware that Einstein believed in Intelligent Design?

Atheist: I’ve always though he was an atheist or agnostic.


Believer: He rejected the anthropomorphic view of God but rejected atheism. Here is what he said supporting Intelligent Design:

“I’m not an atheist. I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”

So, the universe, according to Einstein, is like a great library that had to be written or designed by some intelligence. Doesn’t it bother you that two of your greatest scientists accept intelligent design? Doesn’t it bother you that you are not in the class of the “most intelligent” according to Einstein?

Atheist: Laughs. Einstein wasn’t right about everything.


Believer: Would you say that Nicola Tesla was right up there at the top as far as scientific minds go?

Atheist: Yes, he is one of my favorites.


Believer: Yet he also believed in God and the Bible.  I’ll give you a couple quotes:

“The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My Mother had taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.”

Then when he was seeking the key to wireless transmission of electricity he followed his mother’s advice and found inspiration in the Bible.  He said: “At this time I made a further careful study of the Bible, and discovered the key (to wireless transmission) in Revelation.”

Do you think that maybe these three great scientists realized something you do not in accepting an Intelligent Designer?

Atheist: You make a good point, but one I do not accept.


Believer: Edison was another great scientist.  Wouldn’t you agree?

Atheist: Yes, and he is often quoted by fellow atheists.


Believer: That is because he rejected orthodox views on religion and God as did Einstein.  Here is what he did say: “I do not believe in the God of the theologians; but that there is a Supreme Intelligence, I do not doubt.”  Here is another quote: “What you call God I call Nature, the Supreme intelligence that rules matter.”  Then He speculated that perhaps submicroscopic living “entities” were what built and rebuilt life-forms and that the effort to rebuild was directed by a small number of “master entities”

Obviously he believed in Intelligent Design because he said, “God rules matter.”

Atheist: He shrugs his shoulders and doesn’t comment.


Believer: Another great, Alexander Graham Bell, rejected orthodox religion but not higher intelligence.  he said, “God has strewn our paths with wonders and we certainly should not go through Life with our eyes shut.” Are you not seeing something that these scientific greats did see?

Atheist: Maybe I see more.


Believer: Do you see more than these greats who accepted an Intelligent Designer?  Among them are: Copernicus, Pascal, Galileo, Kepler, Leibniz, Harvey, Vesalius, Linnaeus, Lavoisier, Mendel, Pasteur, Faraday and Maxwell,

Atheist: There are a lot of great scientist who were atheists like Linus Pauling, Francis Crick, James Watson, Richard Dawkins, Pavlov, Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking.


Believer: Correction.  Sagan and Hawking are considered agnostics and at least open to the possibility of a Higher Power.  Yes, there are a few but I would submit that the believing scientists had a much greater constructive impact on civilization than the non believers.

Atheist: That’s your opinion.


Believer: Would you condescend to accept this one point then, which is this.  Those who classify those who believe in Intelligent Design as ignorant and flat earthers are not justified as they would have to place some of the greatest scientists in history in that category.

Atheist:  I’ll grant you that one.


Copyright 2012 by J J Dewey

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